The Complaint [Poll added - Come and vote!]

Hi.

So.

Just wanted to tell everyone the way I feel about what's going on on our Deathrun server.

It looks like #removed (maybe other admins too, but if so, they haven't shared their thoughts... but I don't think so) don't care at all about all members opinions (that's the only thing I can blame him for, other than that he is friendly and fun to play with).

Some time ago there was a vote going on about adding a rule : "Respect turns". It actually was already an implicit rule on the server, admins/members were kicking for that. The vote got a lot more "yes's" than "noes". But it wasn't added.
And now, #removed removes the 1v1 rule, a rule that has been there for quite a long time, without asking anyone. I know he is a CoD4 admin, but IMHO it would be nice to look for every member opinion before doing things like that, because I think that's how a community works.
It doesn't work well when one admin goes on the server, tells people the rule is removed, without notifying the members, and then players insult us because we kick them for a wrong reason because "the rule is removed, #removed said it".
A rule which, actually, is liked by a wide majority on the server. And beginners who don't understand such a rule won't most of the time even reach the end of the map.

If you tell me: "We can't manage it so it can't be a rule", I will tell you that it's better to kick noobs sometimes than never. And I will again make this comparison: We can't manage all hackers. So "Don't hack" cannot be a rule? It's sometimes really hard to tell if someone is wallhacking, but it's not because sometimes you don't ban them because you aren't sure, that you won't ban them when you are sure. And I would say it's better this way.
If you think this comparison is dumb, please explain to me why, in clear terms. If you demonstrates to me that it's stupid, I'll accept it. But please don't just say "Your comparaison doesn't make sense". If you say that you must know why.

Also I remember #removed saying multiple times that he dislikes those rules because it makes people whine/cry.
From my personnal experience it's the complete opposite. Everytime people get their turns stolen, they whine. If admins don't do anything about it, they whine more. If admins take care of it, they are grateful and thank you. And I think it's good for a server to have respected and fair admins.
And when there are too many people on the server, and we are playing on a small map, well most of the time the players are intelligent enough to understand we cannot see everything.

So that's the 2 arguments I've heard against those rules.
To me they are both wrong.
If you think they aren't, or if you have other arguments against those 2 rules, please let us know in this thread. I would be glad to have a lot of different opinions here; I will indeed also be glad to hear people in favor of those rules.

For all these reasons, I will simply ask you to reconsider the viability of those rules, and would be very pleased to see a poll added to this thread, or opened in another.

Maybe I'm making too big of a deal about this.
But I like being part of 3xP' community. People are nice, fun, friendly, and servers are great.
Please don't let it be spoiled by not paying attention to its members' thoughts.

Thanks for reading and giving your opinion.

Have a great night everybody.

Zitat von Blade

Well, is it HIS server, is it not? I'm pretty sure he has the right to modify it to his liking.

I assume you are talking about #removed, well it's not his server, he joined 3xP a few months ago.
And even if it was, I would find it nice to ask the whole community, but I agree that admins paying for the servers can do whatever they want to it, that's normal.

I understand you guys' opinion.

And #removed I said you don't care, because you followed only what you thought was good for everyone. It shows you actually care since you wanna make the game experience better for everyone, but the fact is some people (like me) think that in this case what you did didn't make it better, and you didn't care about them. That's what I meant. I know you are doing good stuff for the servers and people of 3xP.

So, regarding what Skalli said, maybe we could change these rules to something like: "Respect turns when there are endrooms" or "Respect the line before endrooms". That would mean taking away the 1v1 rule, which is surely the hardest to manage. Also there is the special case of some bounce rooms where eveyone can go in at the same time, but I would say there, first person reaching the activator can kill him, because it's like continuing the map.

#removedther solution would be to make this rule instead: "Respect turns (and 1v1) when there are less than 20 jumpers". So when there would be too many people online for us to manage everything correctly, the rule wouldn't apply.
Or "You are not obliged to respect turns (and 1v1) on very small maps", those maps being the only real problem, since it's easy to manage turns on big maps. But the problem is that whether a map is small or not is subjective.

I still think it would be fairer to simply keep the "Respect turns" and "Respect 1v1" rules but I understand you guys find it problematic, so I'm trying to find a compromise^^

If you still think there should be no rule at all, please at least don't widely tell people on the server that they don't have to respect, it causes a lot of problem, let it be some kind of implicit rule like it was for respecting turns, this way people won't cry because we kicked a noob "for no reason" because "there is no rule".
Especially you #removed since you are very influent on DR and people will take everything you say as granted

I will edit my first post with a poll later so everyone could vote for those suggestions, unless you guys think that would be totally useless, in the meantime feel free to post your own suggestions of maybe better rules.

Yeah I guess we could do that.

If we choose to do that, please members/admins warn the players of your intentions before kicking anyone.

Though it would be better to have defined rules IMO, so I'll start a vote.

Zitat von Skalli

"Respect turns and Respect 1v1" (Apply all the time) (5)" I have no idea how you want to manage to controll this. Iam curious, but i dont think that this is a final solution. Anyway, i guess i'll try to do my best than. If this is how its gonna end, we have to make sure that people who dont follow our forum also know, how things went. Many people think that they dont have to respect 1v1 or turns.

The thing is, I don't think members are obliged to manage this, even if it's a rule. If you think for instance that this will ruin your game because that will take too much time, which is totally understandable, then just punish people you see disrespeting, without looking for them all the time.
I think rules are there to make the game better for everyone, but obviously some people will always break them. It's the same everywhere. Do you know of any country where laws are all the time applied, where everytime someone breaks one, he is punished? I don't think that's possible. But still, it makes citizens' life better (in most cases...), because people tend to respect it anyway. And I think it would be the same on the server. If the rule is there, most people will respect it. And if admins punish rules breakers, even just sometimes, it will make even more people respect, because they know they can be kicked, and I think it also makes them aware of what is fair.

But take off those rules, and 3/4 of the people won't respect anymore. And even if there are 4 people in line waiting for their turns and someone just steal everyone's turn, we won't be able to do anything against that, because if we kick him, there will always be people to whine at us because "we don't have the right to kick him, there is no rule" (that's why I think there should be defined rules).

I think we all agree (at least a huge majority) that it's fairer if everyone respects turns and 1v1. The only thing that makes some of you not wanting these rules, is that you think we won't be able to 100% apply it. Well to me that's not a valuable reason. What is fair is fair, and again it's my opinion, but I think it will be better to make the game fair sometimes, when we can, than never, even when we can.
And I actually think we will often be able to make the game fairer and better, because there are often multiple members/admins on deathrun.

Zitat von Kronik

Aurel004 Then it cant be a rule if it isn't always applied, i think it should just stay as it is, and people respect the line then good, if not then oh well i mean there is 15 rounds.

Then answer this for me:

Zitat von UFaced

If you tell me: "We can't manage it so it can't be a rule", I will tell you that it's better to kick noobs sometimes than never. And I will again make this comparison: We can't manage all hackers. So "Don't hack" cannot be a rule? It's sometimes really hard to tell if someone is wallhacking, but it's not because sometimes you don't ban them because you aren't sure, that you won't ban them when you are sure. And I would say it's better this way.
If you think this comparison is dumb, please explain to me why, in clear terms. If you demonstrates to me that it's stupid, I'll accept it.

Do you really think what cannot always be applied cannot be a rule?